Peter Bostelmann is Chief Mindfulness Officer and founder of SAP's Global Mindfulness Practice. Under his leadership, mindfulness-based training and support structures for a lasting cultural change have been piloted, refined, and are being offered to all SAP employees globally. Peter initiated the foundation for the lasting success of this practice by building a passionate community of teachers and ambassadors. Peter is an Integral Leadership Coach and trained as an Industrial Engineer. He brings more than 25 years of leadership experience in international business to his current efforts to bring mindfulness programs to scale at global organizations.

Transcript:

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (00:03):

Hey, welcome, welcome, welcome. So we'd like to welcome everybody that's joined us from the various parts of the world that have logged in and dedicated their time to spend with us. And I'd like to introduce Peter Bossman. Peter Bossman is the Chief mindfulness Officer at SAP. And Peter is joining us today to share some of his wisdom about the journey that he's taken and about his own personal practice as well as the practice and how he leads what is the mindfulness program for SAP. And with that, Peter, I'm going to go ahead and hand it over to you. Maybe you could share a little bit more thoughts about yourself.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (00:49):

Oh, absolutely. Yes. So again, welcome from my side to anybody who is in the call or listening to the recording. And I'm very pleased to be here. And it's for us. And for me it's an interesting time because we're doing this now since about 10 years. So in June, 2013, we did the first pilots within SAP bringing SIY, such and such itself program to SAP. And of course there was like about half a year of work before to get it done. So if anybody of you is in this process, you're in the company, it takes a little while. And I'd like to reflect on what we learned in this conversation and also some guidance and maybe some questions from you will come up that I can also can address, I can address. So that makes this worthwhile remaining time.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (01:48):

Yeah. Well, so Peter, quite directly, we would love to know what you have done, the journey that you have taken with your team to scale this program, this really important program that affects people and the quality of their lives at work and how you've been able to take a journey to scale this across SAP. Let's just start with the big question. How has the process of scaling begun to take place for you? Maybe if you could take us down a little bit of journey.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (02:21):

Yes. Before we go there, actually I want to share a little bit so that people get a sense what happened in this 10 years maybe I share a few facts to, gives us a little bit of a base. So it has become way bigger than I would've anticipated in the very beginning. And so by now we have trained more than 15,000. So 1, 5, 0, 0, 0 attendees with an SAP. And we also brought this to other organizations and there's also a couple of thousand people we trained directly. And then indirectly, there's ripple effect. We have done five teacher trainings within SAP. We're just starting our sixth wave. I'm very excited about that. We have trained in total more than 90 internal teacher and we still have about 60 that are active. So that's an impressive number. So some of them doing this now since more than six years. And we have built a huge community that is supporting this of teachers and then of ambassadors and to really bring this to SAP in a much deeper way than I would've anticipated. So SAP who are the ones of you that don't know is as a global tech company, it's a leader in business application, sorry, I should know this. Better business enterprise software. And then we have brought contributed to a cultural change within SAP

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (03:51):

0.1. Yes. Yeah, a 10 year journey, a 10 year journey. And part of that journey has been to enable other people by training them to teach. And in doing so, being able to reach the scale of 15,000 people, I mean that's an incredible number of people within the SAP workplace that have been enabled with these skills. Yeah, I would love to learn more about that 15,000. That's such a great number to just repeat that.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (04:24):

Yeah, it is impressive. I mean, as I said, it's way bigger than I would have believed in the beginning maybe than I hoped. So I think it's important. So again, if I put myself in the shoes of people that are rather than the beginning or somewhere in earlier stages of this journey, it's I think start with one step after the other, but also have a big goal in mind where you want to go so that you create the environment in a way.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (04:55):

So Peter, let me interrupt you. Did you have that in mind to actually reach that number of a large volume of people? Was that really what you had set out to in the beginning or did you grow into maybe that that would be possible?

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (05:13):

Okay, that's a good question. A great question. My very first step was establish a pilot and see, so I have a personal mindfulness practice and then I grew into this role of becoming more public and talk about it. And in 15 years or 12 years ago, I wouldn't have imagined that I would do this publicly really. So it's my own journey also of growing into my strengths. And so the very first step was establishing a pilot so that we run, we did run two SRY classes to see Emma having just a very special hobby. I love mindfulness and I'm very convinced or is it something that really has a broader interest at SAP? So that was the first step. And after the pilots actually had very good results, and this was again 2013 in Palo Alto here in Silicon Valley where we do a lot of pilots within the SAP global organization. Then I started thinking, okay, this is flying, or at least there's more people than I was hoping for. And we also had instantly a wait list building.

(06:27):

And then, so my background, I did a lot of large scale programs in organizations as a project program manager. And then I started thinking, okay, if I do want to have this big, how do I scale? And then I started thinking, okay, I need to educate teachers. I can't just do this by myself. SAP has, back then we had more than 80,000 people. Now we have more than a hundred thousand people. So how can I scale this? And then I started thinking of a business case, how to influence the organization. Yes. So this wasn't the very beginning, still one step after the other. And it takes patience and persistence this year, but having a big goal in mind, that helps a lot. It has something that carries you, your goal doesn't scare you, and then it's maybe too smart.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (07:15):

You said something that's really important that a business case needed to be made. And so generally when I think of business cases, there needs to be justification to get resources from within the company to dedicate toward doing this, to train that many teachers. That's a pretty large amount of time and resources that are dedicated to enable this program. So the results of the program must have been quite impressive or impressive enough at least to build a business case to continue. I mean 10 years later, that says a lot in and of itself

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (07:50):

And it's one step after the other. So if you go back to the beginnings, what we did is, I mean you're right and it's very important to create a business case. In other words, create why is mindfulness practices for you specific organization, whether it's large like ours or whether it's small, why is this important to make it not a cookie cutter approach? Everybody's doing it, we need to do it too, but to become really specific, how would it serve our organizational needs and goals? So make it business program and speak business language, that's the business case so that you can justify your spending money for the organization. It will contribute to the organization's goal. The more you find this language that sounds true to you as the one who's doing it, the champions here in the call. But also the more you find the language where your executives, your sponsor say, oh, that would be something we could really need. And it's different organizations, of course then you have a proposal. That's what we change if we bring this practices to the organization. And then you start doing pilots, start doing trainings and validate and measure against it. And if it goes well, and we have seen this in many organizations, you validate the business case. You see, yeah, there are certain measures we expect it to grow and we could see them grow. What was it within SAP and anticipating this question

(09:16):

For us, one key measure we look for is employee engagement. Another key measure we look for is leadership trust. Another one absentism means like are people unexcused not on the job? And so this was back in 20 13, 20 14, and we could show that this actually is improving with the program and significant numbers. And yeah, stop here.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (09:45):

Yeah, that's fascinating Peter. So to really bring this together, the business case needs to solve business problems and challenges and needs. And you mentioned goals. So the employee engagement, the leadership trust index and the employee absenteeism were three areas that you were able to measure and then the results of that allowed for you to continue and build and grow and build and grow and scale. That's really fascinating. And I'm sure that people that are with us today are curious about how do they build their business case to potentially start their program and maybe start off as you did with just a pilot. So I think it bears worth repeating that having something in mind that you want to accomplish as the results of the pilot can show to then build the business case a little further for more resources and executive sponsorship that would be able to lean in and help with the program. Can you talk a little bit about how you influenced others? We all know in these large corporate environments, it's not one person's decision. It's influencing and getting buy-in from others that also have some purview over what might take place. Can you share a little bit about how you went about influencing leaders and other people to help this program grow and thrive?

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (11:05):

Yeah, I mean that's a great, and also very wide question. I think it is most important is that you listen to leaders. That's one thing I learned over the years. So of course we have an idea of how this could help. And specifically if you are really fond of mindfulness and you really want to do something, you're really passionate about it, but that you still again find your ground of presence and see what is it they need? Where is it that leaders become interested? Where is it like, oh yeah, nice thing. So that you see what do we address the organization needs? Again, for SAP, we are a knowledge provider, knowledge based company. So for us, am engagement is one of the key measures that is very high and it has to be very high. That's very high strategic goals. For other companies, it be worker security, it can be creativity, and of course mental health is for all organizations in the light of the last years becoming more important.

(12:04):

But you see, what is it? What are problems we are facing? What are things that the life of my executives gets easier? And this is what I would look for. And to your question, how to influence. I mean I think you need both. You need top level sponsorship and find executives that are open to support. So check this out. Ideally you have somebody who has a practice. Often I experienced there are leaders more and more that have a personal practice that are not very vocal about it. So I would check this out, try not to break open doors that are closed to speak on this metaphor, but give it a push and then see if the door maybe is opening when you talk about it. That would be the top down. And then the bottom up create, and this is how we also did it in the beginning. I can say there were many back then 10 years ago, mindfulness was less popular than today. There were many interested leaders, also many, many skeptical ones on the other end. But nobody was confident enough to say, well, I give you the budget to start this because it's quite an amount of money. So I on the other hand, created a grassroots created, okay, here is something I made a first public event that we invited people from such and such yourself.

(13:22):

And Maine back then gave a public speak and at something which was happening within SAP, the innovation speaker series. And there a couple of hundred people showed up. So it showed, oh, there's interest. And then I had a list of people I could address. And again, I addressed specifically and found out the people that are interested in this programs. And within a year we had a wait list for the program of thousand 500 people. That's when my chief learning officer got interested like, well, if you have a strong pipeline, must be a good product. So if there's something, and it was mainly a word of mouth where people are interested in, employee is interested in, that can be a big indication that you're doing something that your organization needs.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (14:05):

You shared so much there and thank you for those nuggets of wisdom. The word that came to mind though is you helped create a sense of demand by letting people know about what this program could do for them and potentially to help with the business as well. And momentum and demand for this started to develop and you use a lot of social and emotional intelligence. It sounds like your own skills and capabilities to lead and influence people in the direction that could be potentially beneficial for all. I really appreciate you sharing that with us. And this is really critical because I am on the road a fair amount. I'm speaking with executives and speaking with people that have interest in bringing the SIY program or other to their organizations to help impact the lives of people. And when I say impact the lives, employee engagement is an impact.

(14:59):

Employee retention is another form of impact and helping people to develop skills around resilience and being able to better navigate and adapt to the environment that they're in and the change that we've all gone through particularly over the last several years. So these programs, I'm finding to have quite a bit of interest and curiosity from people. It's creating the link from curiosity to the business case for why a company would want to spend money to support this program. And I greatly appreciate you bringing to mind that it's not just from the top down, but from the bottom up building the grassroots movement, momentum and demand that can be delivered to peers to show there is a need for this. There is a desire for this. I would also be remiss if I didn't say employee retention is top of mind for a lot of executives that I speak to as well. And bringing programs like this to the work environment to help keep people in a space that they enjoy.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (16:06):

I want to throw something in, actually, I got approval from our chief HR officer many years ago that it's also okay if people go through the program, align themselves and feel like they want to leave. So we don't want to have anybody who is not happy with their job. It's more the alignment and out of that, the engagement comes or the decision. Some people decide to leave, but we believe this also supports the organization just to throw this in.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (16:35):

Yeah, absolutely. So what comes to mind there is the social contract between the employee and the work that they're doing and the company they're working for. Which brings me to another area of meaning and purpose. Peter, clearly you've spent a fair amount of your life in your work life and your personal life engaged in this. So this I'm going to assume has created some sense of meaning and purpose for you. Do you mind sharing a little bit about your personal story? Are there any nuggets of wisdom that you could share around the meaning and purpose? Absolutely.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (17:07):

Yeah. I mean clearly I have a lot of energy in driving and driving this. And I wanted to add on the grassroots. I mean there's something where you still need to in many organizations to demystify what is mindfulness about. And of course the root of the SOI program is based on mindfulness, then based emotional intelligence and to be skillful to explain why this is important, but also be connected. So for me, I'm a converted skeptic. And so about 16 years ago, mindfulness came to my life. Back then I didn't know about it. And my partner back then, she had a meditation yoga practice and I thought, you can do this. I don't need to do this. I do my triathlon. And then I learned to cut a long story, a little short, and this is very powerful and I created my own practice and I have a deep practice.

(17:58):

I sit every day and I go once a year on a 10 day the passer. And to me, I really believe system that's important. I believe in the fruits of this practice. I believe in what I experienced in my body, that there's something shifting that's so powerful and so enriching to life and I want to pass this gift on. That's where my why lies. And the more you in your journey and becoming a teacher and becoming a champion, connect and reconnect with this. Yeah, this is true to me and I believe the world needs this and the world will be more connected and hopefully a little more peaceful and than many other benefits and more ethical. If you really believe this, it gives you strengths. It gives you strengths to be relaxed. When somebody is challenging you, questioning you, ignoring you, I mean, speaking of my journey, there's this quote I thing allegedly, it's from Gandhi.

(18:56):

First they ignored you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. This happens again and again and again and again over the years. So in a large organization, there's many people you encountered. And for me it's a gift. And the more I come with a mindset, here's a gift I'd like to pass on. If you're not interested, well okay, that's fine for me. For me, the gift is still true. This really is very powerful. That's at the root. And then learn how to speak about it, that you address the audience. So I can share in the beginning, I had context from my meditation centers and from my yoga community and I spoke much more, how to say, flowery much more in a missionary excited way. And I learned some people, specifically some executives, for them, it doesn't feel safe. They don't want to put their reputation at risk with something that smells like woo, right?

(19:52):

So make it a business program again, be connected with your own spirituality and with your own, however you would call it your own shoes, but learn how to address it that the person on the other hand is really interested. And to find a good balance that it doesn't feel untruthful to you, but that it feels like that's a skillful way to talk about it. I can talk much longer about it. And so I'm happy that there were the ones that you might meet in Lisbon that there will be more opportunity to engage. So I just get started here basically.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (20:30):

Yeah, I was just going to say, there's so much to share, I'm sure, and there's so much to say. And I would invite people that are listening now or maybe later through the recording that we're going to have an opportunity to workshop with Peter in Lisbon in July. We have our annual summit July 20th through the 22nd. And this will be a time that's very dedicated to help people to workshop. How might they bring a program? What might that look like? How might they build the business case so that they can show the return on investment that businesses need to see before they invest funds. So Peter's going to be gracious enough to share a lot more detail and workshop with us in Lisbon on how other people within their companies, because they have maybe a sense of purpose and meaning to bring this to their organization to help them understand how that might be possible.

(21:25):

So we're going to have that opportunity here in the summer. I encourage you to all take a look. My colleague Sarah will probably put a link to this event in the chat. And then for these last few minutes, I would love to open up if, see if there's any questions from people in the audience that they might have for Peter and that I'm sure other people might have as well. So if there are any questions, please feel free to type that into the q and a box. And while we're waiting to see if people do have questions, Peter, I would love to hear maybe if there were any moments in time, maybe within the last few years because of the pandemic and how much change has taken place in business and how much things have evolved. Have there been any moments in time of challenge around the program and just in general with what you've been able to help shepherd and create at SAP?

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (22:20):

Yes, thank you. Yes. You see me laughing. I think when I started I had somewhat, let's call it a romantic illusion that if I only would bring enough mindfulness to the organizational world, life would become easier. And then little by little by little, I realized I've never becomes either I in first noble truth life is dca, right? Life is always happening or very often happening in different way than we want. And mindfulness practice strengthens the muscle to meet it with economi, with a calm, grounded strength. Oh, what's happening here? Oh, what's happening in my system? Responding to what's happening on the outside. So it is a challenging path and it's a fun path too, to bring mindfulness based emotional intelligence to an organization. It is demystifying, it is change work, it is energetic work so that you bring in something different and that you by doing this, by teaching, by talking to people, attune your skills. So I think over the years I built a variety of possibilities to see to whom am I talking and what are the interested in. Sometimes it's most powerful to not talk about mindfulness, but just be yourself and they realize you are somehow different. I get curious what this is about again. So that would be a short summary.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (23:46):

Yeah, yeah. There's a comment here from Paul Stefan who's one of our folks over at Autodesk that's now a teacher in training and he just wanted to say that you're an inspiration to him. So I wanted to share that with you and the benefit of having internal teachers and do what they do to add value in your experience. So can you share maybe about what some of the internal teachers have shared with you about taking this journey

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (24:12):

And program? Yes. It's one of the key success factors of our journey to create this community of multiplier. So it's not just me, we have 60 active teachers that are teaching this. We have another 80 active ambassadors that are advocates for this. Any one of 'em expresses actually two of them also in the call, hi. I don't say names expresses that this is a personal growth in doing this, but it's also the most effective way to change culture. And also once you have a certain number is harder for the executives to cancel the program because you are more embedded into the culture. That could be also a long-term security mechanism because of course it's unpopular if you have a well established and well distributed program with many teachers. So that was one of my strategies, strategic aspects too. So it is, it's one way to really infuse the culture.

(25:19):

And then out of that new programs and more content is going to be built. It has training teachers, there's an economic aspect. So the business case calculates better, but also it's an aspect of knowledge transfer and maybe the most important that you have people from within your organization that talks the organizational language. So it is more convincing if you have an executive talk about how they apply mindfulness and helps them in their day or an expert or whatever the role is, as opposed to bringing an external expert where people sometimes might think, yeah, you don't know my reality here. So speaking out of this reality and transferring it to the specific reality is very powerful. Last thought for the group of teachers, then it's also great to have a sounding board. So is there challenges that it's not just you, but that you can apply the group wisdom, which I do all the time. So I have by now, we have a team of six full-time people that only do mindfulness within SAP and then this other 60 plus voluntary teachers. And we do a lot of the difficult questions in a sounding board manner where we say, how does it land with you? And it's very powerful approach,

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (26:31):

Sense of community. You brought that up earlier and having that common experience to share with one another to learn and challenge each other. So we're at time here, Peter. I just want to say thank you once again on behalf of SIY global and the audience of people that came here to listen as well. There's so much to share. There's so much more to say. Thank you. And we look forward to seeing people potentially in Lisbon as well, so we can learn and grow together and have a greater impact on the workplace with mindfulness in the workplace and social and emotional intelligence development.

Peter Bostelmann, SAP (27:03):

Thank you, Xi. It was a pleasure and it's a true gift for me that I'm able to share this. So anybody who has questions, yes, please come to Lisbon or reach out to SRA global or to us and happy to support to be of further support.

Alexie Dossa, SiY Global (27:17):

Thank you. Thank you so much. Goodbye everybody. Have a great day. Take care.